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Better BS, Better Hypocrisy, Papa John’s Stance on Guns

On Sunday January 11th a pizza delivery girl was attacked at gunpoint by two thugs looking to rob her and who knows what else.  Thankfully, since this took place in Decatur Georgia and not New York or Washington DC, things turned out a little differently than the attackers would have thought as the girl pulled out her own gun and shot one of them, 24 yo Donquaz Stevenson, in the face after she was knocked to the ground.

For this act of self defense the woman faced termination of a different sort as her exercising her right not to be raped and murdered by thugs goes against Papa John’s corporate policy.  Word came out yesterday though, no doubt in large part to the public outcry, that Papa John’s will NOT be firing the employee.

When I first heard about that I felt like going out and buying a Papa John’s Pizza to support them in making the right decision.  Then I looked into it and realized what they REALLY did.

All Papa John’s did was weigh the cost of the public outcry and symbolically caved.  If this story wasn’t picked up by the national press I don’t believe that this woman would still be employed.

Now, why do I say that?  Because Papa John’s is NOT changing their policy.  Employees are still required to drive out to unknown locations, alone, with cash and UNARMED.

The employee that saved her own life has been told that she can no longer carry her firearm while working and has been “reassigned to another role.”  So in a way she did lose her delivery job.

That’s the BS party.  The hypocrisy part comes when Papa John’s attempts to talk out of both sides of their corporate mouth.

First by stating this:

“The safety of Papa John’s employees is a top priority for our company”

And following it up with this:

“Company policy prohibits employees from utilizing firearms in the performance of their duties. We plan no changes to our current policy, which is designed to protect customers and employees. Upon investigation and considering the specific facts of the situation, we have reassigned the employee to work in the store and are offering her counseling to help her recuperate from the incident.”

First of all, their policy is designed to protect criminals and their own bottom line.  They couldn’t give a crap about their employees because the delivery girl is probably alive because she was armed.  Had she followed Papa John’s policy she would have definitely been robbed, was in the process of being beaten and most likely would have been raped if not killed.

So NO, Papa John’s, you do NOT care for the safety of your employees and if it wasn’t for the bad press you would receive this woman would no doubt have been fired.  That’s why it took you nearly 5 whole days to come out an announce she wasn’t being let go.  Had to weigh the cost of that bad press.

So this is not a win for gun owners.  Papa John’s is NOT a pro gun store.  In the future employees caught defending themselves will STILL get fired if the story doesn’t get picked up nationally and Papa John’s still endangers their employees for the fear of losing money.

If I owned a pizza chain I would mandate and advertise that my delivery personnel were ALL packing heat and trained to use it.  I guarantee MY drivers would be the LAST people criminals would want to seek out.

That’s how i’d protect MY employees.

Papa John’s is a fraud and their pizza tastes like lies.


  • durabo

    Perceive attack > shoot if necessary > survive > wait to get fired > sue the hell out of Papa John’s for not having protected delivery personnel .> continue the media blitz to incite boycott. One or two events, and Papa John’s will back off. In the meantime, we gunnies must call, write, and even protest at our local pizza places.

  • Hop

    Until they publicly announce a change in their policy, I will not be buying any more of their pizzas. Firearm owners must unite and boycott whenever necessary.

    • Ken Budd

      Amen from this moment forward no more.

  • B-Sabre

    “First of all, their policy is designed to protect criminals and their own bottom line. ”

    Correct. Papa Johns is looking to avoid a potential lawsuit from a person who gets shot by one of their drivers, by accident or otherwise.

    • Phaenius

      Yep, why shoot accidentally the poor thug when you can shoot him while he threatens your life, liberty or possession…while on the work place (buzzing about delivering pizzas).

      • B-Sabre

        I think somebody who gets shot by a legal concealed carrier during the commission of a crime has little leg to stand on in suing in civil court, but it has been known to happen. PJ’s was probably more afraid of the possibility of a driver getting into an argument and shooting a customer, or some accident happening when the gun falls on the floor.

        Also, I have to consider the fact that a person with a concealed weapon does not necessarily have my permission to come onto my property with a weapon. Or does the act of ordering a pizza for delivery provide implied consent?

        • Phaenius

          The permission to come on property has NO demand other than that of peace, and an unbrandished weapon of self defense in its holster under peaceable presumptions is a mark of non hostility as the wave of the empty sword wielding hand had to the passerbys of days gone by. In fact if one does not desire to have a weapon on a guest, the responsibioity is for the owner to provide a SECUERE repository of one’s weapon of self defense at the entrance of the premise AND WHILE THE DISARMED GUEST IS VISITING, the host provides an armed guard to protect the safety of the guest while on the premise of whether private or publc property. The invited guest MUST presume, even if delivering you your pizza that YOU do not drag out YOUR weapon and brandish it toward HIM. The mutual potential of peace and the mutal potential of violence of either guest OR host balance out, and actually rationally forbids one or the other to have advantage of violence one over another. So you do NOT have a weapon when you go to another’s place…THAT becomes YOUR responsibility over the safety of your own life, as is the same for the home owner to have a weapon or not within reach. There is another issue of liability which our tyrannical government has allowed and that is the property owner, public or private, being responsible for others doing mayhem on their property. A responsible citizen who goes through the trouble of obtaining a license when it is constitutionally unnecessary ought to be responsible for his OWN mayhem whether on private or public property, and the responsiblity for providing security for a guest by a host seeking to disarm his guest brings on liability to the private or public property owner, as WELL AS providing a secure repository for the surrendered weapon so as not to virtually disarm the guest from home to your front door. You see you CANNOT BRING BACK MY innocent life from the grave if YOUR lessor priority of mere confidence desires me to not have that which could protect me from the real evils we even today have to dodge while traveling from hither to yon, and I am victimized. Real gun laws should revoke the liability of private or public property owners from anything that responsible citizens might do while on your property, your own security is in your own hands by providing like protection for yourself and not deprive me of the right to live in confidence while I travel about whether in business or while off duty from work.
          You dismiss the idea (maybe or never thought about it) that while LIFE, LIBERTY AND PROPERTY are inalienable rights, the last two are in decreasing priority dependent on the first, and that is where the right to self defense is the right to preserve one’s innocent life, having the liberty to do that, and the property (a gun) to maintain that innocent life. This is taken from Jefferson’s dependence on the concept of John Locke in his second treatise of government that says that suicide is NOT liberty but license because GOD put us on this earth to LIVE and not to quit our station early or before our time, and that is why American freedom is called LIBERTY or the freedom to do that which is right in the sight of God (pointing to the fact that God put us on this earth to LIVE and that righteously, and since the proverb says, “there is a way that seemeth right unto a man but the ends thereof are the ways of death,” we have to consider what is right that which is in the sight of GOD. Only tyrants have forged the hindrance against doing that which JESUS HIMSELF allowed his apostles to have, and that is weapons as long as it is not brandished like a man of war, and why he told Peter to put the weapon which he asked them to bring back into its place…and that ought to be like our guns in our secure holsters and not even in a bag like that lady who had her gun in her hand bag and OFF HER BODY allowing a child to obtain that gun and actually killing the mother.
          The safest place for ANY WEAPON is not locked in a safe at home, or in a car, but on the person of a responsible citizen IN ITS PLACE, a secure holster attached to the person of the owner of the weapon.

          • Mike Lawson

            Why aren’t more people upvoting this? It’s informed, well thought-out…in short it’s brilliant!

          • Phaenius

            Thank you for your comments, the only real encouragement I have ever had in presenting what in all honestly is not my original thinking. No other folk seem to understand that this was taken from those who founded our country, and their mentors, such as John Locke, and concerning Liberty of conscience that I did not discuss, from Leonard Busher who wrote the first published plea for Liberty of Conscience AND the freedom of the press (This London citizen, Baptist pastor, even considering this right for the “Papists,” who in 1614 might have influenced even Locke), and I am sorry about the rambling way I presented it…it just sort of pours out of my keyboard from the frustration that as you mentioned, no one cares about how our founders thought out our form of government that the current administrations are unraveling.

            Thank you founders, and thank you God for allowing us to have this concept of governance, and I am so sorry that we have desired to piss away our inheritance.

          • jimbo124816

            I agree, but it’ speaks volumes about what our country has turned into. Criminals need to be in jail or dead.

        • iitywybad

          Maybe when a home invader who doesn’t give a damn whether or not they have your permission to come on your property with a weapon does just that and either pistol whips you into a bloody pulp or puts a bullet in your head you’ll change your mind – that is, IF YOU SURVIVE.

          • B-Sabre

            Obviously, a criminal doesn’t effinng care about laws or your wishes. That’s why they’re a criminal.

            My question is more about the obligation of a concealed carrier to his host regarding what his armed state is, from a standpoint of 1) courtesy or 2) liability, if your host has not made their personal preferences about being armed known to you.

          • iitywybad

            Frankly, considering the number of people who have been killed when visiting so-called “friends” or “relatives” whom they obviously liked and trusted, I wouldn’t tell my ANYONE about my concealed status – I don’t plan to harm them, it’s none of their business, and you’re in a much better position if they have unknown ideas in their mind.

            Oh, and one more thing – is it so hard these days to construct a reply without resorting to the “F” word or it’s derivatives??

      • Edward B. Levy

        We order Pia John every Sat & Sunday while watching a variety of sports 4 Pies this past Sunday during both games
        This will now be replaced by Little Ceasars. I am noNOT a gun owner

    • Jeremy South

      Exactly. I’d say the rule is in place because the company is concerned about possible legal liability if their employee shoots somebody and it turns out not to be a righteous shooting (For instance, if he reaches in his pocket to make change, drags the pistol out by accident, and it falls to the floor, discharges and shoots the babysitter; or if he mistakes the Papa out in the yard raking leaves for a robber with a club and shoots him in the mistaken belief his life is in danger). If “Company policy prohibits employees from utilizing firearms in the performance of their duties”, then the shooting was not in the scope of the employee’s employment and at least arguably the employer is not liable for his employee’s wrongful shooting. Company is just trying to protect itself from the something-for-nothing crowd of plaintiff’s lawyers. And, by the way, the Second Amendment does not apply to private companies.

  • TsarPeterRex

    Excellent commentary. I guess Papa John’s will just run a new help wanted ad for a delivery person if someone gets killed in the performance of their duties. Maybe the government will “draft” pizza deliverymen….like men were drafted into the military during Vietnam….but skip the step of arming them since Papa John’s is another corporate gutless wonder But I’d also recommend that in criminal hell hole areas……all pizza places should just end delivery. Let the buyer come to the store. Any loss of business isn’t worth a driver;s life. About 22 years ago, while waiting for a job to start, I took a delivery job with Papa Johns, I had to shave my beard …..that was against company rules….but what they didn’t know was that I was packing ( I had a carry permit in my state). I wasn’t told about any firearms rule…and I didn’t ask. But I wasn’t going to be a target for some vermin. I’m glad this girl protected herself, and as the author said, drivers should have the option of being trained and armed..
    Today, a pizza delivery person is like the stagecoach driver ( and his “shoitgun” sidekick”) on the
    Wells Fargo wagons……….who had to protect themselves from highwaymen, rogues, renegade Indians and banditi of every sort……except today, they bear names like…”Donquaz Stevenson”..who this
    lady plugged with a bullet. Good for you lady driver.

  • stadalberts

    No more papa John’s pizza in my home. Change your policy, you clown. Thou have to allow your employees to p protect themselves. Otherwise, send an armed guard with them on their delivery runs!

  • disqus_0pFiJ52lrn

    The guy’s name is John Snowder. He is the owner of Papa Johns. With that policy against protecting employees I have to believe he is a leftist. He lives in the Louisville Kentucky area.

  • machodog

    It would be fitting if employees or their families sued companies like this for denying them their right to defend themselves if killed or harmed in the line of their job. Sending our young men out to the battlefield unarmed would be likened to these corporate policies. Liberalism does not require intelligence. Matter of fact, it scoffs in the face common sense.

    • Phaenius

      Somebody ought to remind folk of the unarmed French policeman who arrived at Charlie’s when the Islamic henchmen murdered the employees. The policeman begged for mercy but they killed him anyway. What if that policeman was as armed as Wilson against that thug in that Missouri city just recently?

  • I used to work for them, as well as Domino’s and Pizza Hut delivery. They all have the same crazy policy. They also force the drivers to place lighted displays on top of their POV’s stating that they are delivery drivers for that company. I used to complain viciferously that it was a moving advertisement for criminals to say, “Hey. That driver probably has cash on them. Let’s ROB them.” As far as I know, these policies are still in force. Their free advertisement (posting their lit signs on the drivers roof) is more important to their exec’s than the lives of their drivers. Their insufferable fear of firearms is more important than the lives of their drivers. SMH

  • TexasOlTimer

    The companies that mandate employees cannot have guns should be mandated to put a sign in the front yard of all the company officers: “GUN-FREE ZONE” to tell the bad guys they can come in and rob or kill whenever they want to. Those same officers should not be allowed to have any armed guards whatsoever at any location where they have offices.

  • Mom & Pop Pizza Shop!
    Mom & Pop Pizza Shop!
    Mom & Pop Pizza Shop!

    Fast food chains are just that… chains… Support your local pizzerias or Papa Johns and Dominoes will be the next Home Depot & Lowe’s.

  • WayOutHere

    Dittos, no more papa johns in this well armed home!!

  • jimbo124816

    I used to service ATM machines, sometimes after hours. We were told that we were not to carry any kind of weapon…gun, knife, or pepper spray. We were told that, if we were accosted, open the safe and give the robber the money. We were not to offer any resistance at all. Sounds good so far, but then we were told that any missing money was up to us to replace, and when asked if we got the feeling that we were going to be injured or killed, push the alarm button. I have set off alarms by accident and waited for the police to arrive to let them know it was an accident, and they would come 20 minutes later.. or not at all.

    From what I have seen, the police are only there to draw the chalk line around your dead body. That would have been the case with the Pizza Delivery girl. As soon as she gets calmed down and she realizes what her fate was going to be, she will need that counseling Papa John offered.

  • jimbo124816

    Papa John just informed all thieves that they won’t have any trouble robbing his drivers. Funny how that works!

  • iitywybad

    This is all bull sh*t. I used to patronize Papa Johns regularly, I like their pizza, and their price is usually the best around. However, a few months ago I was going in to pick up my pizza and noticed the NO WEAPONS sign in the window. I walked inside, told them to cancel my order, told them why, and walked out. At the time I didn’t own a weapon or carry, but with current conditions, I am in the market for the best weapon to suit my needs and I will be getting a concealed carry permit.

    No 2nd Amendment supporter should patronize any establishment that posts a NO WEAPONS sign. The only one I will continue to go to is the bank that hold my mortgage, and that is only because it would cost me too much to re-finance. As for their sign, I will ignore it. I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

  • jug

    Guys, it isn’t just the companies calling the shots here, it”s actually their insurance companies.
    They have to go with what those insurance companies dictate.

  • ADRoberts

    It will be a costly win, but Papa John’s, the good buddy of the infamous Cowboy owner and thief, is NOW open for a major lawsuit. The next time a delivery is attacked and harmed or killed, the families will be able to take action against the moron, to the tune of millions. He prevented them from defending themselves in order to escape legal entanglement FOR HIMSELF.
    If he had a brain, he will simple NOT address the issue at all. But he is just like so many. He wants to micromanage and control. Probably at the instructions of some liberal lawyer, who does not like guns. LOL

  • sargeant rock

    “Another one bites the dust” that is another business I will not longer patronize… Hey Manning, I think you need to “re-think” whom you allow your name to be attached to….

  • John

    Well, Papa John originally wanted to be a physician. Hence his “Doctor’s service corporation” history.
    Thus far we now know he did not have what it takes to be that special being.
    Like what? Truly caring about people is the first. Ability to reason through tough problems. Making the proper decisions.
    Executing the tough decisions. Sticking to the right principles. Intelligence enough to put it all together. Being in command of a team of people for the good and welfare of humanity. Willingness to see things as they are, not as we want them to be. Action orientation. Willingness and ability to change as fast as necessary. Continual learning for the good of people.
    Wonder if he is in charge of his business? Putting people ahead of dollars would show us I am wrong.
    Change your policy Papa John!
    Show us you are made of better stuff!!

  • John

    Perhaps we need a new hate crime law?
    Make it a hate crime to assault/ batter a delivery person. “Delivery drivers law”
    Or… Deputize all delivery drivers? They could deliver subpoenas along with their primary deliveries. :-))
    For the PC crowd against CC laws and guns in general, tax delivery services and use the money to provide armed escorts with a law to mandate these. These armed escorts would be sworn officers of course. Cost is no object…because it’s only tax dollars…
    Maybe Papa will be on undercover boss one day and be subject to his company rules? Let’s make it…say Detroit?

  • tarheel

    Popa John right down the street……I will never order another. Your attorneys have told you that if an employee uses or mis-uses a weapon the company will be sued because lawyers always go after the big money. I would simply make them all independent contractors which most of them are anyway. Use what ever means necessary to protect and defend yourself with in the confines of your jurisdiction

  • Glen

    My daughter worked for our local Papa John’s last year (not anymore). They definitely had a No Weapons policy. If an employee was suspected of having a gun or knife in their own personal car that was being used to deliver pizza,the manager would demand the employee to allow the vehicle to be searched. If a weapon was found, the employee would get terminated. The nephew of our recently retired office manager was murdered a couple of years ago while delivering pizzas in the Hammond, LA area. He was carjacked, beaten and then run over with his own car. These delivery companies don’t give a care in the world for their employees, just possible company liability if the employee accidentally injured a third party if they were forced to defend their life.

  • Michele Velvet Glove Hunter

    Many delivery places or corporate provided vehicles have the same. The claim “liability. While I get the legal point, if one CHL holder is denied carry and accosted, I hope they (or forbid it, their survivors) go for the jugular. The sad part is that these corporations often have a blanket law that doesn’t address state CHL law. MANY CHL states have a law regarding your auto a being an extension of your domicile. Which supersedes? Well, most would say the state CHL. But you still get fired. Pun intended. I can live with that

  • Carl Smith

    Lol i deliver pizza for papa johns too and i carry my gun regardless….how i see it is that its my life not theres and if they dont like it they can go kick rocks
    ….plus they only pay 4 dollars an hour for delivery drivers. Anyway.

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